Mediguano Grunt, there always seems to be argument on the constitutional right to bear arms. So tell me if that also says there is a constitutional right to actually use them? They are ornamental, are they not?
The Grunt “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” You can read this in a number of ways – from downplaying the first part to focusing on the first part to limit/expand the meaning. Clearly, “the people” (individuals or the collection?) have the right to keep and bear arms, though for what purpose is a tad bit vague; personal use or to just to support a ‘well regulated’ militia (for a free STATE – also nation?). Not sure I see anything here about ornamental uses…
Mediguano The legal definition of “to bear” includes the following: bear (Adduce), verb acknowledge, acknowledge openly, adjure, admit, affirm, afford proof of, allege, allude to, argue, ascertain, assent, assert, assert absolutely, asseverate, assure, attest, authenticate, aver, avouch, avow, bring forward, bring to light, bring up, call to mind, certify, cite, claim, contend, corroborate, declare, declare to be fact, demonstrate, denote, depone, depose, display, document, elucidate, emphasize, endorse, establish, evidence, evince, exemplify, exhibit, expose, express, furnish evidence, give evidence, give information, give one’s word, give witness, guarantee, have evidence, imply, indicate, inform, introduce, invoke, involve, maintain, make a statement, make an assertion, make eviient, make reference to, make solemn, manifest, name, plead, pledge, point out, point to, present, proclaim, produce the evidence, profess, promulgate, propound, prove, publish, ratify, refer to, represent, show, signify, stand firm, state as fact, state on oath, stipulate, submit, subscribe, substantiate, sustain, swear, take one’s oath, testify, validate, verify, vindicate, vouch for, vow, warrant, witness to .
Mediguano Sometimes we think we understand the implications whereas, more often than not, we don’t. Such is the nature of law. Another point is whether we should or can declare the general populace as “militia”.
The Grunt I see display and exhibit in your list – kinda points to ornamental. Though I also see demonstrate which points to using them. No help there.
The Grunt Per Wiki: A militia generally refers to an army or other fighting force that is composed of non-professional fighters; citizens of a nation or subjects of a state or government that can be called upon to enter a combat situation, as opposed to a professional force of regular soldiers or, historically, members of the fighting nobility. – individuals from the general populace make up a militia but militia does not include all individuals in the general populace.
The Grunt “Necessary” : so important that you must (required by a rule or law) have it. So, the security of a free state demands the state must have a well regulated militia. People are given the right to keep/bear arms. It doesn’t say just to support a militia, it says shall not be infringed – no limits.
Mediguano Demonstrate. Interesting. An active sense to be considered in the context of “arms”. To that here is a legal definition: ARMS. Any thing that a man wears for his defense, or takes in his hands, or uses in his anger, to cast at, or strike at another. Co. Litt. 161 b, 162 a; Crompt. Just. P. 65; Cunn. Dict. h.t. .
Mediguano Provided anything we choose to use in anger may be supportive. Lovely
Mediguano I always respect a “necessary” and angry militia. Shouldn’t we all?
Mediguano Blasting away is definitely evident.
The Grunt One thought is that anyone should be allowed to own ANY weapon they want – up to and including nuclear warheads (well, maybe not that big) – BUT, they should also be held ultimately responsible for ANY ACT that is committed using that weapon, whether they did it or not. Put some responsibility on weapons owners for proper use of their weapons. Unfortunately, this implies that all weapons be registered and tracked for this to work and that won’t work at all…
Mediguano Registration is not at issue though. Size of object isn’t either for that matter.
The Grunt If registering won’t work then limiting is the next popular option – which is
Mediguano The term militia is limiting.
The Grunt Face it, we’re doomed to 2nd amendment arguments for the life of the nation.
Mediguano As we have for the past several years.
Mediguano Good commentary Grunt!
The Grunt Sometimes my bullshit filter breaks and I spew like crazy… Sometimes I even believe what I say…
Mediguano Don’t we all! Sounded informed though didn’t it? Hope the observers of the unobserved observers enjoyed it as well (I think I’m gonna spew on that one).
The Grunt Per wiki, a militia is composed of non-professional fighters. I’m thinking that sounds more like a rabble than security but that untrained rabble has the right to high tech weapons. Sounds a bit scary when you think about it…
The Grunt We probably pinged a number of NSA search subroutines on this thread…
Mediguano That or DHS. There are families that may be considered militia…
The Grunt and organizations
Mediguano Going to sleep on that one! G’night Grunt!
The Grunt G’nite – I’ll be up for a while yet, reading more BS to fuel more spews…
Mediguano To summarize, a militia, not as defining the general populace of governance, may display albeit not necessarily use arms against another so as to infringe upon their individual right to the pursuit of life, liberty, and freedom. Back to my original comment about being “ornamental”.
Mediguano Definitely not a pretty “picture”.
Mediguano Feel free to fill in the “gaps”. It’s unlikely you and I cleared the mud.
The Grunt I’ll vote for high muzzle velocity ornaments any day… clearing mud? I’d rather stir it up.
Mediguano Doesn’t matter what you display. Of course, now that we have brought up the issue of display, are arms in fact concealable? To be carried on yet another day……
The Grunt sure they are, ask Syria… uh, yeah, to be continued on another day…
Mediguano That to bear includes declarative, registration is acceptable. Negates my comment above.
Mediguano Peace, love, and spit wads. Aloha.
The Grunt Sound advice: Buy guns now, argue legality later… huevos rancheros amigo…
The Grunt BTW, all arguments should be taken with a complete salt lick…
Mediguano . Au revoir, amigo,